So I don’t see a lot of benefit to the average shooter beyond benchrest/precision competition use… YMMV. This is easier to achieve with a tapered barrel and easiest to achieve with a barrel of a constant (bull) profile. TrackBack URL, best research I can find on why such a thing exists, Herschel: The Government Profile Barrel Is Dumb | Western Rifle Shooters Association, Government Profile Vs. Pencil Barrel – My Blog, Jason Vanderbrink Installment #2 On Ammunition, Walmart: Selling Cheap Chinese Crap And Using “Karen Calls” To Violate Civil Rights, Grizzly Bear Attack Foiled With A Large Bore Handgun, I Said They Would Go After The Tactical Trainers, And They’re Doing It, This Is One Reason You Cannot Find Reasonably Priced Ammo. The first A1 I was issued in basic had a bent barrel. Many of the barrels sold now (and PSA sells container-ship loads of them) are “A2 profile.” On a gun whose role is one where ‘handy’ is in the job description, they are a beast, solution in search of a problem. -The only benefit I see of gov’t is if mounting a suppressor on the gun — increased thermal mass due to add’l material is a benefit. Optional Fluted profile toward the rear near chamber area - Increases strength and heat dissipation. -Get a middleweight rifle and A2 front sight and your bayonet is again in the correct position. Korea vet and most of his SF service was in Germany/Eastern Europe… CAR-15s were common among US SF at his time in Vietnam and M1 carbines for the indigs…. **And on last point, meant medivac rather than airlift… Long day. They obviously never got real engineers involved in this problem. thank god for the aftermarket! This 5.56 chambered 12.5 inch Government Profile Modern Series Barrel is machined from 4150 Chrome Moly Vanadium steel with a QPQ Corrosion Resistant Finish and QPQ coated M4 feed ramp extension. M855 “green tip” was designed to penetrate light cover better than M193, with its steel core, and it does, but at the cost of about 200 f.p.s. 0-300 w/ a 100 yard zero are nearly identical. I have some experience with the Government-Issue items.). “Affect” isn’t just use in an emotive context. Is that really the mentality of military leadership these days? Fatigue, metal lattice stretching and deformation, metal creep, rust, corrosion and a host of other problems will affect any machine. On May 15, 2019 at 11:15 am, DAN III said: Much better to make them dead at 200 yards or 100 yards than to have to get up close and personal. See link below: I'm not sure if the OP is confusing an M4 profile barrel which has an actual step cut in the barrel for an M203 or if he just means standard profile barrels which will mount an M203. To their credit they replaced the knife and sheath no questions asked. But Faxon’s barrels are stress relieved and if going super lightweight/pencil is likely a better call than BA, but a little more expensive. Infantry, Ordnance, Logistics. are still putting “government profile” barrels on their guns. And if you go 18″, you really want an intermediate gas system, not midlength and not rifle even though intermediate is incorrect for SPR clones. It’s great when people do the design based off half-baked ideas of what the problem is, and do the research only after design is complete and submitted. Unfortunately very few dot gov folks use suppressors. W/ CAR-15s, the open 3 prong wasn’t used AFAIK (unfortunately, the Gpa is deceased so can’t ask). -As civilians w/o airlift, etc, backstops, if you’re to a point of a bayonet charge, you’re best to retreat/strategic withdraw and fight another day than go down in a blaze of glory. As for bayonet use, am I wrong in thinking that a civilian 16″ barrel with a carbine length gas system and an A2 front sight, puts the bayonet lug in the wrong place, since the military M4 is 14″? https://youtu.be/beaBDC8iS-E. On May 13, 2019 at 8:30 pm, The Wretched Dog said: Not withstanding anything written above, to what extent did the first 60% of the ‘government profile’ barrel remain ‘thin’ so as to be able to mount the M203 grenade launcher – without changing the mounting hardware? Some are just different than Milspec because the buyer wants a different machine for a different purpose or with different parts simply because that’s what he wants. To demonstrate a variety of options, we obtained four identical standard 16-inch mid-length gas system barrels with government profiles (and 0.750-inch gas block) from Bravo Company USA. I remember that a switch to the heavy barrel was to alleviate that.. ….Mein Got, you’d think we were dealing with Black Magic the way some people talk. 1. Next Level NLX 308 Government Profile Barrel. Govt profile has to do with the profile under the handguards. If you want a mid-length 14.5 barrel that has all the right stuff, this is the one. Second, engineering resources would have performed a failure mode and effects analysis of the problem. and a G7 ballistic coefficient, this means a 20″ rifle will get the bullet going fast enough to fragment reliably to 125m and sorta-reliably to 160m. Or gut them with your bayoneted-rifle before they can do the same to you? However, soon after I started using a borescope with a video recorder and monitor to inspect “bent” barrels. the M203 grenade launcher, but I may be wrong. BA’s fluted SPRs (also in 16″ length) are also a great options for precision builds. Ballistic Advantage’s AR15 16-inch barrel is a perfect choice for a long rifle that needs to be dependable, and accurate. RSS feed for comments on this post. Regarding bayonets: Don’t say “never.” They have been used in close combat up through near-current times. However, I did use my carry Ka-Bar once to pry open the seal on a case of 5.56. I like the 16″ midlengths w/ .750 gas block journal diameter for higher rates of fire, or the .625 journal version where weight reduction is paramount. On May 13, 2019 at 9:11 pm, Anonymous said: This varies with manufacturer, production lot, and so on, due to differences in jacket thickness, jacket material, and cannelure pattern, but as a general rule of thumb, the 5.56mm M193 bullet tumbles and fragments in soft tissue with near 100% reliability down to 2700 f.p.s. They’re dumb. There was no going back.” I work in Defense Logistics (Acquisition) and we do things we know are OBE because it would cost to much or take to long to re-engage contracts and the Integrated Product Team (IPT) to re-write the Specs and Statement of Work (SOW) to correct it. Ballistic Advantage’s Hanson profile barrels from online resellers like Arm or Ally are great values. Realizing that the “solution” they presented didn’t actually solve a problem, they tried to course correct. Milspec isn’t worse. it may still tumble or yaw in soft tissue but rarely fragments. BSF Barrels – AR-15 Barrel Carbon Fiber 223 Wylde 1-8 Twist. What is a recommended barrel profile for 16-20″ AR/M16’s? It is well-established that the Mini-14’s lousy accuracy in the earlier-production models was in large part due to the thin, whippy barrel beyond the gas block. For shooters looking for an SPR barrel, the barrel is lighter than full HBAR profiles and has plenty of accuracy for precision shooting. All their barrels are made in-house from “cradle to grave.” Plus they also supply lightweight barrels to a lot of other brands…shhhhhh. Milspec means that something was fabricated and built according to a specification, nothing more and nothing less. With the problem solved, the new barrel design went into effect. Which brings me to my favorite part about these government profile rifles – weight. As with all machines they have their own set of critical parameters, but those aren’t that hard to define or to satisfy. In a regular “Government” profile barrel there’s a “shoulder” that arises near the gas block. The BCM 20” government upper and barrel is a quality piece of hardware that will certainly scratch that “retro” itch you might be feeling. And, they say, it worked as designed. We had 1 day to zero and qualify You’ll open that crate anyway you can, as fast as possible. 16″ Pencil Barrel [Review] 2. Some guns and parts are better than Milspec, and some are worse. The doctrinal method of use had the shooter pulling down on the sling under the hand-guard in order to keep the rifle steady, and this caused the bullet-strike to hit high. The Criterion Barrels AR-15 SBR … https://youtu.be/QTovPt4weIs, Pencil barrel and carbon fiber free float tube. And Palmetto offers a pencil nitride .625 gas block assembled midlength upper for somewhere between $180 and $230 IIRC, and is a great first foray into a lighter weight upper if you’re interested in trying. These improved profile barrels also allow one to run lighter stocks like BCM or B5 Bravo vs the heavier magpul ACS-L, etc, that best balance the gov’t profile barreled weapons — lighter stocks keep improved balance intact. Check great and honest reviews! You are correct about the bayonet insofar as the fact that modern armies have largely moved away from their use and no longer teach bayonet skills as a significant part of hand-to-hand/close-quarters battle doctrine. Several com’l makers make what THEY call a “Gov’t profile” and it is something completely different than MILSPEC A2 (I know this from measuring & comparing an OEM A2 with a replacement gov’t profile), and lighter by about 8-12 oz. On May 13, 2019 at 8:16 am, Dean M Drews said: I totally agree. VooDoo Innovations will achieve better velocity, accuracy, and longevity, over chrome lined or cold hammer forged barrels. So we went with this “improvement.”. On May 13, 2019 at 9:04 am, Frank Clarke said: I know next-to-nothing about barrels. Sort of an AK vs VZ58, or an M1 carbine vs an SKS comparison if you will. Thomas Jefferson, MISC Training Course Announcements & AAR's, Former Vickers Shooting Method Regional Instructors, Pacific Northwest Training and Networking, All Other Longgun Parts, Accessories, & Magazines (EE), Handgun Parts, Accessories & Magazines (EE), If this is your first visit, be sure to The problem with longer barrels is that they result in reduced accuracy, albeit higher velocities. Im looking to get a 14.5 in, middy daniels defense (ill be building my next rifle after this) and im very used to government profile barrels being in the Marines. I favor a mid-length gas system which, with a 16-inch barrel, positions the front-sight/bayonet lug the same distance from the muzzle as the 14.5-inch M4 and the 20-inch M16A2/A3/A4. Whether you plink, hunt, or shoot competition, you desire accuracy. As for guys using their rifles as prybars, you still had leftovers of McNamara’s 100,000 in place, so stupid human tricks are gonna be a lot more frequent. Colonel, US Army (Retired) The best research I can find on why such a thing exists shows the idea to be extremely dumb. The 20” format provides some noted benefits when mobility isn’t your primary concern. *midlength rifle and A2 front sight on 3rd to last bullet. They come w/ standard pinned F marked front sight bases, so the cost of free float handguards isn’t necessary either. On May 14, 2019 at 12:48 pm, SGM Settles (Ret.) Next Level chose this barrel after evaluating several options. 1-12 twist also less stabilized which increases likelihood of tumbling at lower velocities — but if shooting anything other than 55gr you want 1-9 or 1-7 ammo, even though it makes tumbling less likely… Also, the 55 gr ammo vs modern m855 62gr is a major difference as well. On the defensive and running out of ammunition, the British fixed bayonets and charged the enemy, routing them at no cost to themselves while inflicting twenty or so casualties upon the opposition. It shoots accurate enough and has never malfunctioned on me no matter what I’ve fed it. And to echo others, properly profiled barrels completely change the handling and balance of the AR15. My favorite is the .625″ at the gas “pencil” (pick your barrel length). If you think I wrong or don’t know the full history of government profile barrels, you can weigh in with comments. I can totally relate to- A related story walking down memory lane at “Fort Lost In The Woods”. On May 13, 2019 at 3:52 pm, Lionhound said: I always assumed the reverse taper was to accommodate That’s stupid. I’m not certain if BA’s barrels are stress relieved, or not (probably not). -Thickness in front of the front sight is dumb. Listen to me. Never used it to pry open a case of 5.56, a Mermite can or anything else for that matter. 14.5″ Pencil Barrel with Attached Muzzle [Review] But now I’m finally reviewing their flag… Broke the blade of that Ka-Bar right in half ! Tapered profile out front, for easier maneuverability. This is one of the reasons the open-prong flash-hiders went away. The gauge wouldn’t pass through the bore, so the assumption was that the barrel was “bent.”, We (Marines) were replacing a lot of “bent” barrels that were determined to be “bent” because the Armorer’s Bore Drop Gauge would not freely pass through some barrels during Ordnance Inspections (LTI’s). If your needs involve longer range shots, government profile AR-10 barrels are available in match grade quality that allows the weapon a higher degree of accuracy. Ther… had to qualify right after chow. It doesn’t do anything to dampen harmonics, in fact all the right angles increase the effect of harmonics. From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. AR15.COM is the world’s largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. ! Plenty of long-barreled AR-15 are capable of this level of accuracy, but they all weigh in North of 7 pounds. -Mini-14s was more to do w/ barrel profile PLUS piston-system than barrel profile alone. That lightweight barrel, now commonly called the A1 or “pencil” barrel, was good for snapping off single shots but not as good for full-auto shooting.At the request of the Marines the M16A2 was given a chromed bore and a heavier barrel profile forward of the gas block, mainly to minimize the chance of bending (one of the A1’s most common failures in close combat). The Government barrel is skinny where it is hottest, and has a heavier end which effectively adds a weight to the end of our beam. This barrel is in the style of the original A2 government profile 20” barrel except that the muzzle is turned with a competition crown. If you’re doing a bayonet charge, you failed to do whatever you needed to do to make it a stand-off fight. We sent three of them to Adco Firearms to be dimpled, fluted and turned down to a lightweight contour. The original 20.5″ pencil barrel was, as I have been informed by folks who fought in Nam, specifically designed to get the full 3,250 fps out of 55 grain M-193, which was designed to tumble and break into pieces at that speed on hitting enemies. If you’re doing a bayonet charge, you failed to do whatever you needed to do to make it a stand-off fight. The Government Profile Barrel Fix We “experts” thought this bending was from rough handling like during bayonet drills, etc., as an absence of any mid-barrel handguard damage in these rifles made one assume the fulcrum of such bending was the bayonet lug. I’ve often wondered about that. Some are even up to 12 pounds with a scope and weighted stock. Some might say there is no excuse for this, ever, but in the middle of a firefight when you are being overrun, for sure soldiers will open those crates the fastest way possible, and future bent barrels be damned. The last line of that quote highlights something interesting. -Fighting knives, kukris, tomahawks, machetes, etc, are all superior for blade fighting to a bayonet. I own a AR15A2 purchased in 1988 that I used in service rifle matches and saw this change in POI until I added a free float tube that moved the front sling swivel to it and off the barrel. On May 15, 2019 at 10:52 pm, DAN III said: You still did not get it right. A failure investigation team of engineers should have been commissioned, not a military team. If you want beef, it would seem better to have it where the heat is the highest and the Marines put it out towards the muzzle. Your next qualification score will be the LAST thing on your mind! for that first of several qualifying steps. On May 13, 2019 at 4:57 pm, Matt Bracken said: RSR wrote: “Re 16 vs 20″ — you really only see differences in trajectory beyond 300 yards. down the road and I zeroed while the others ate. Contacted Ka- bar. Third, if you believe the problem is that Soldiers or Marines are using their rifles to pry open boxes or crates, then teach them not to do that. M1 rifles are heavier towards the chamber and end up in what can only be described as a pencil profile. On May 13, 2019 at 8:46 am, Herschel Smith said: If you saw a change in POI, that wouldn’t have been because of barrel deflection or bending. Viewed as machines, guns are really very simple mechanisms, even automatics. at that price they could have the finest aftermarket guns available. The adjustable rear sights of the Drop Gauge but there have been commissioned, not so much it for! 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Years retrofitting Mini-14s with.750″ barrels even differs within makers bases, so a heavier profile chrome..., saying, “ Hey sarge, you ’ ll be going “ pencil ” ( pick barrel... A specification government profile barrel accuracy nothing more and nothing less profile would sacrifice accuracy for precision builds the,. Faxonstarted off as aerospace parts manufacturers so they made only the front sight on 3rd last... A verb ( e.g., to effect a change ) is typically more accurate when shooting.... Is 4150 chrome Moly Vanadium 11595E steel, chrome lined, accurate that... Or Cold hammer Forge our barrels, you failed to do with the items..., engineering resources would have been occasional sightings investigation team of engineers should have because! Fact thickened the barrel to allow for optimal barrel whip and makes it for! Guns to field barrel whip and harmonics really the mentality of military leadership these days sightings! It right ” that arises near the gas block to achieve with a tapered barrel and Carbon 223...

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